Mafia 4 - Night 2, Deadline 10/7 9pm

[Z-licious]

I am not so sure Nate is scum, just more a vocal townie with a stick in the mud attitude.

And that's the only thing keeping me from pushing hard to lynch him. Nate always says things that make him look scummy. He was town first game and I think he was one of the first people lynched. He was scum 2nd game and said a few things that I called him out on, but disregarded it as Nate being nate and saying things he shouldn't. Turns out he was actually scum. So, while the game is to appear town no matter what side you are on, Nate manages to pull of the other side of the coin, he appears scum no matter what side he is on.

 

[dmention7]

Good breakdown, but instead of pushing to vote, we could also look at members that have yet to actually cast a vote, scum could have the mentality of the "sit back and wait" and watch townie rip each other apart, such as in day one.

To be clear, I was not advocating that a vote be pushed. Just proposing a strategy. I'm not even sure it's a good one, but I figured I'd throw it out there and let it ferment a bit.

I was thinking this same thing, but you went and blew it by announcing it. If we lynched nate we might have been able to glean some info on 2 days worth of votes (day 1 votes against nate and the day 2 lynch if we lynched him). But now that you've announced the plan it is highly likely that if Nate were scum, his scum partner would vote for him to avoid suspicion, and if Nate were not scum, the scum wouldn't vote for him and say "Yeah, I thought he was town, now the scum should be int he group that voted for him 2 days in a row".

Well, my apologies KrisEddy. Next time let me know what you're thinking so I can know not to talk about it.

I didn't blow anything. Secrecy is the enemy of town and the friend of scum. Scum are the ones who have the luxury of keeping their plans hidden and attempting to manipulate players. Transparency and openness are the tools of town.

By laying out all possible courses of action and thoroughly discussing the possible outcomes, we rely less on the hope that scum will act a certain way, and more on being able to back them into a corner when their deceptions start to fall apart or become contradictory.

 

[Picklz]

And that's the only thing keeping me from pushing hard to lynch him. Nate always says things that make him look scummy. He was town first game and I think he was one of the first people lynched. He was scum 2nd game and said a few things that I called him out on, but disregarded it as Nate being nate and saying things he shouldn't. Turns out he was actually scum. So, while the game is to appear town no matter what side you are on, Nate manages to pull of the other side of the coin, he appears scum no matter what side he is on.

That is a fair point - I don't really recall the earlier games very well other than you coming out and saying you were scum lol. The problem with that is it doesn't really help us, all we know is that he always has in past games looked / acted like scum in either role. I expected more than just the same broken record of 'I'm not scum, you'll be sorry if you lynch me' but that seems to be all we're getting so I'm not ready to unvote nate yet.

We have another day or day and a half before we should all really try and come to a consensus on a vote - right now I'm split fairly evenly between Tom and Nate based on the actions of Day 1

 

[mndsm]

Tom, this answer doesn't adequately answer my question. You said, and I quote "That seems to be that Nate.... is one vote from a hammer. And me NOT believing Nate is a scum, I shall not vote for him. Someone else is gonna have to hammer this dude, It isn't gonna be me." Even if JT was scum why couldn't Nate and JT both be scum? Instead, you did not believe Nate was scum at all and would not vote for him, even though it would have saved us from a no-lynch day.

Because my Vote would have put Nate 1 vote from the noose. Scum likely would have hammered him before anyone else could unvote. I wasn't willing to risk a hammer two days early at that point, even if it would have likely put scum right on the radar.

 

[dmention7]

Tom, this answer doesn't adequately answer my question. You said, and I quote "That seems to be that Nate.... is one vote from a hammer. And me NOT believing Nate is a scum, I shall not vote for him. Someone else is gonna have to hammer this dude, It isn't gonna be me." Even if JT was scum why couldn't Nate and JT both be scum? Instead, you did not believe Nate was scum at all and would not vote for him, even though it would have saved us from a no-lynch day.

I don't think following the mob just to get a lynch is a very Townie action. In fact, that's a downright scummy action.

The only scenario in which Tom's action would be scummy is if he and Nate are both scum. Maybe that's what you're getting at?

 

[Picklz]

Because my Vote would have put Nate 1 vote from the noose. Scum likely would have hammered him before anyone else could unvote. I wasn't willing to risk a hammer two days early at that point, even if it would have likely put scum right on the radar.

Actually by my count you would have been the hammer vote Tom - now granted with 2 days left in the day that's not really an ideal situation - I probably wouldn't have hammered at that point either. However - it is also possible that Nate and Tom are Scum, and Tom then obviously wouldn't want to vote Nate, and would explain why he wasn't willing to change is vote to Nate after the # of votes Nate had went down below 4 and still wasn't interested in changing from JT when we were trying to come to a consensus on Friday.

Also - a Lynch early on Day 1 and having a solid idea of who a scum might be seems like a better position to be in that where we are at right now, just sayin.

 

[AJ]

If in fact Nate and Tom is working together, I dont' see it, and it's been well done, like sneaky good....

 

[mndsm]

Actually by my count you would have been the hammer vote Tom - now granted with 2 days left in the day that's not really an ideal situation - I probably wouldn't have hammered at that point either. However - it is also possible that Nate and Tom are Scum, and Tom then obviously wouldn't want to vote Nate, and would explain why he wasn't willing to change is vote to Nate after the # of votes Nate had went down below 4 and still wasn't interested in changing from JT when we were trying to come to a consensus on Friday.

Also - a Lynch early on Day 1 and having a solid idea of who a scum might be seems like a better position to be in that where we are at right now, just sayin.

Yeah, you're probably right on the current state of things. I'll be honest, upon further review, Nate IS giving off quite the scummy vibe. I'm not sure I'm ready to throw my hat into that ring as of yet, due to my aggregious misfire over the whole JT episode. I guess I'd like to see more of what he has to say about it. My head is between him and Swanny for the moment.

 

[niterydr]

What is the official vote count now?

 

[Z-licious]

I don't think following the mob just to get a lynch is a very Townie action. In fact, that's a downright scummy action.

Are you saying that you would rather have a no-lynch on day 1 than "follow the mob" and take a swing?

The only scenario in which Tom's action would be scummy is if he and Nate are both scum. Maybe that's what you're getting at?

What I was really getting at is "what has Nate said that made Tom believe so certainly that Nate was town?" Certainly nothing jumped out at me as I was reading through the posts from Nate up to that point.

 

[Workdawg]

Current Vote Count (2.2)

JT [0]
Picklz [0]
Tom [0]
Nate [2] - Andy, Picklz
AJ [0]
Jay [0]
Andy [0]
Eddy [0]
Josh [0]


With 8 players alive, 5 votes are needed to lynch!

Deadline to vote: 10/5, 9pm.

 

[dmention7]

Are you saying that you would rather have a no-lynch on day 1 than "follow the mob" and take a swing?

I think it depends on the circumstances. If I had a feeling that scum had swung some influence into lynching someone I believed was town, I would likely not fall in line, unless there were circumstances in which that lynch would yield some substantially useful info. Sure, it carries the risk that you come out looking really scummy if that person ends up being scum. But being the deciding vote on a Townie lynch is almost as damning--and on day 1 is a much more likely outcome.

That's all based on a pretty specific situation of a) I am the deciding vote, b) I don't think the person being voted for is scum, and c) the vote appears to be a mod mentality vote, as opposed to a well-reasoned rally.

MOD EDIT: I fixed your quote tag failure...

 

[dmention7]

EBWOP: I answered based on the circumstances that seemed most relevant to this game. As a general rule though, no I would not abstain from being the deciding vote solely for the sake of not wanting to be the deciding vote. If you had a different set of circumstances in mind, let me know.

 

[niterydr]

Vote: Nate

 

[Z-licious]

Vote: Josh

All of your votes have had no explanation behind them and several of them look like bandwagon votes (probably cuz no explanation.) Also, the things you say don't line up with the way you vote or what you don't say. It also doesn't really seem like you're putting much effort into scum hunting.

Observe:

Vote: Tom

This was a mere 8 mins after picklz voted Tom and you provided no reasoning.

Means I can't be crazy then.

VOTE: Picklz

Little reasoning behind this.

Similar page, although I am thinking JT may be the missing town member.

It is funny how it works isn't it? I was thinking either you or JT were scum and the more I read the more and more I think you are one of the scum members. Attacking a fellow scum (JT) wouldn't make sense. I could be off base, but its the nature of the game.

Well shit, I thought JT was Scum, now back to the drawing board I guess.

What? Did you or did you not think JT was scum? At first you think he's town, but then the next day you think he's scum. What changed since then? You also never voted for JT and if you thought JT was scum and now had to go back to the drawing board wouldn't you have at least voted for him?

I am not so sure Nate is scum, just more a vocal townie with a stick in the mud attitude.

Vote: Nate

WTF? You post that you don't think Nate is scum and then a couple hours later you jump on the bandwagon and vote for him? Again with no explanation. That's the most damning thing I've seen from you so far.

There's 2 scenarios that I imagine from this. Either you are town and are not trying very hard to discover who the scum are, and simply not paying attention and making mistakes, or you are scum and not trying very hard to make sure the motivations you convey to us match what you do and say. Either way you're of little help to town and I am voting for you unless a more scummy looking target appears.

 

[mndsm]

I'm with Eddy. That was a sketchy vote. Though if Eddy and Swanny were working together, that'd be a smart play. Swanny bandwagon votes, Eddy jumps all over him.

 

[dmention7]

Smart play until town realizes Eddy is right and lynches his partner....

That is a good post by Eddy, but I feel like there is some selective quoting going on there. Note to self: read through Swanny's posts since start of game to look for additional context that Eddy may have "skipped over".

 

[niterydr]

Vote: Josh

All of your votes have had no explanation behind them and several of them look like bandwagon votes (probably cuz no explanation.) Also, the things you say don't line up with the way you vote or what you don't say. It also doesn't really seem like you're putting much effort into scum hunting.

Observe:



This was a mere 8 mins after picklz voted Tom and you provided no reasoning.




Little reasoning behind this.








What? Did you or did you not think JT was scum? At first you think he's town, but then the next day you think he's scum. What changed since then? You also never voted for JT and if you thought JT was scum and now had to go back to the drawing board wouldn't you have at least voted for him?







WTF? You post that you don't think Nate is scum and then a couple hours later you jump on the bandwagon and vote for him? Again with no explanation. That's the most damning thing I've seen from you so far.

There's 2 scenarios that I imagine from this. Either you are town and are not trying very hard to discover who the scum are, and simply not paying attention and making mistakes, or you are scum and not trying very hard to make sure the motivations you convey to us match what you do and say. Either way you're of little help to town and I am voting for you unless a more scummy looking target appears.

C: Faking a bandwagon vote to see reactions to it or to get people to post thoughts.

Unvote: Nate

 

[niterydr]

Vote: Josh

All of your votes have had no explanation behind them and several of them look like bandwagon votes (probably cuz no explanation.) Also, the things you say don't line up with the way you vote or what you don't say. It also doesn't really seem like you're putting much effort into scum hunting.

Observe:



This was a mere 8 mins after picklz voted Tom and you provided no reasoning.




Little reasoning behind this.








What? Did you or did you not think JT was scum? At first you think he's town, but then the next day you think he's scum. What changed since then? You also never voted for JT and if you thought JT was scum and now had to go back to the drawing board wouldn't you have at least voted for him?







WTF? You post that you don't think Nate is scum and then a couple hours later you jump on the bandwagon and vote for him? Again with no explanation. That's the most damning thing I've seen from you so far.

There's 2 scenarios that I imagine from this. Either you are town and are not trying very hard to discover who the scum are, and simply not paying attention and making mistakes, or you are scum and not trying very hard to make sure the motivations you convey to us match what you do and say. Either way you're of little help to town and I am voting for you unless a more scummy looking target appears.

For the record I thought that JT/Pickelz were scum together, but voted Pickelz to see where the votes would land. Voting for me to "get rid of me" would seem scummy. Excellent idea to drop out inexperienced townies to get the ratios in your favor.....

 

[Big Nate]

Well up to this time I have three votes.

I agree with KrisEddy. Swanny is not voting with consistency at all. For the same reasons said (no explanation).

Looks like this game scum is flying under the radar. I see some people band wagon voting and that could be just the fact that they don't know how to beat the grass to startle the snakes or that they are scum and trying not to draw attention. My name has come up in almost every post. I am taking not posting as a scummy thing.

Jay pops his head in and tosses around his verbal shell game then steps back.
Picklz seems to be doing lagit investigation and seems to have reasoning behind his vote.
Swanny band wagon jumping
Andy trying to not look like a band wagon jumper by putting his vote for the obvious day to lynchy.
KrisEddy doing what Eddy does and pulling lots of comments together and taking everything as literal as possible.
Tom is sitting back not wanting to attempt to make waves as to draw attention to him. Be he scum or not I know best attention is not good.
AJ still acting dumb and tossing out a couple little nuggets to keep the spotlight off him.
Nate Most likely playing it to aggressive and understanding that if in the end town wins his lynching/knifing doesn't matter.