The brick wall for the MS3/6 guys.

[Workdawg]

I wouldn't hold your breathe for the Focus RS... according to autoblog: http://www.autoblog.com/2009/04/06/rumormill-entry-no-3-256-north-america-could-get-next-gen-for/

The Focus RS might come to NA,

but not until after the next-generation model debuts in a couple of years

 

[JohnnyT]

its got nothing to do with warranties or meth/nos. Did you guys read the entire thread? Its fairly complicated but the ecu isnt fully cracked yet, so we have to wait until cobb stops beating around the bush of what they have unlocked or someone else, most likely cpe, finds more as well. Also comparing this to a dsm is way apples to oranges. the DI engine in this car is much more complicated in terms of being able to tune. The cobalt ss seems to have had a slight issue as well, were 400hp was the max they go, well like 409. Im sure the cobalt will go higher cuz HPtuners has a much better control over the ecu than anyone does for the ms3 but still goes to show how much harder it is to tune on a DI (for the time being). I know some vw guys had 600hp blah blah but they had pretty much full control over the ecu.

Seems a couple places are working on this so hopefully something happens this year, but honestly who really needs that much hp to the wheels? 1/4 people? eh ford announced the focus RS is being highly considered to be brought over...im gonna part out the ms3 and buy that lol

The reason the VW guys got there with their DI was injector phase control. We have the pressure nailed down, now we just need volume. Being that PI has twice the window as DI, we're on a much more limited amount of time to inject fuel. The only solution is to crack the ECU to access and edit those injector tables, or add a secondary fuel rail and run it on a stand alone.

 

[AJ]

its got nothing to do with warranties

What's available has a lot to do with a warranty. Right now, there are not a lot of MS3 and MS6 owners willing to spend money on new, high dollar, products that could be a huge gamble on the longevity of their engine. As money becomes available to mod cars, a market in generated and vendors come alive.

I know it's not the real argument here, but you will not find a company willing to spend the time with R&D until there is more money to be made.

 

[JohnnyT]

Right now, there are not a lot of MS3 and MS6 owners willing to spend money on new, high dollar, products that could be a huge gamble on the longevity of their engine.

I don't know what you're talking about AJ

 

[spek1098]

Yea, a lot of people value their warranties, so to them, putting mods on that void the warranty, is like throwing money down the drain. I agree because the price of the warranty is built into the price of the car. Once those warranties expire, a lot more people will be willing to mod, which will bring in more tuners, with more r&d, which will lead to more and better parts.

And the thought that CP-E is going to solve this problem sounds like a joke to me. They can't even solve the problem that they have had since last spring with the motor mount for the 3. I am going to have to go with the SU one instead.

I have a feeling that the injector start time is built into the logic, else we would have heard from Cobb, or anyone who has cracked the ECU, that this is something they can control. I think the delay in having a definitive answer is because they are trying to find away around this problem and do not want to come out prematurely and say that this can't be done. Else it is possible that they already know it can’t be done and are keeping it under wraps in order not to discourage anyone from modding there car or buying an AP or comparable device.

 

[dmention7]

I thought I read in the msf thread that the injector phase coding is simply in a different part of the PCM than has been cracked so far.

 

[JohnnyT]

It is Jay, and you're right that part of the ECU has not been cracked.

It look like the big restriction to making big power is two things: 1.) Our shit ECU and 2.) Mazda's DI system.

So, the idea of PI being thrown in with a secondary fuel rail may break those two barriers. DI would be controlled with an AP (and ATR), while PI will be used with a piggyback. As early as this summer, the wall may be broken down. More info here:

http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/for...866-port-injection-second-rail-big-power.html

 

[spek1098]

I hadn't read that Jay, but I haven't read everything in that thread. I don't think it is safe to assume that injector start time is adjustable, how would anyone have any idea of that if it hasn't been cracked?

As early as this summer, the wall may be broken down.

If I had a nickel for every time I have heard the claim that big power is just around the corner, my car would be paid off. Don't get your hopes to high on this, every 3 months since the car came out these claims have been made...

And I have to disagree on the opinion of the ECU in this car. This is one of the most advanced and capable ECU out there. It has well over 100 3D data graphs, takes inputs from over 40(?) sensors, and is the second largest (data wise) in any common tuner car, coming in second to only the R35. It's a work of art, just look at how easy it adapts to bolt ons. The problems people are having with it come from the fact that it is as complicated as it is. But I don't thing this degrades the ECU; it just means that this of figuring it out the whole process is being stretched out over a few more years.

 

[JohnnyT]

Injector start time should be adjustable, as it is for the VW and Audi guys because their ECU has been cracked - they're seeing 600whp now.

Well, for the guys that want to go big, they're blaming the ECU and Mazda's DI. It's shit to them because it's so complicated that they can't figure it out NOW to get their big gains NOW. No matter how much money you throw at it, it's still going to take time - which is not on the sides of those who want big power NOW.

Sure, it adapts to bolt-ons, but look at all the problems: fuel cut, boost cut, boost creep, injector control, etc. Most of these have been resolved, but have you seen how many people have blown their motors? It's a pretty high percentage, and it's a bit scary to see especially on such a new platform.

Granted, I love my car. I won't be getting anywhere near the 500whp range, but it's interesting to see the progression. I'm not holding my breath on seeing this wall down by summer, but if it comes, I'll be happy to see it.

 

[cosmicspd3]

honestly warranties mean nothing to people who actually want to get big hp. most people here get the ms3/ms6 and lightly mod. No one here has expressed going to 400+hp. The people on msf who did all did it almost right after purchase. Same goes for srt4 people, they buy the car knowing full well they are going big hp and dont care about warranties. Warranties are for DD's not big hp's which is what we are talking about.

 

[cosmicspd3]

I wouldn't hold your breathe for the Focus RS... according to autoblog: http://www.autoblog.com/2009/04/06/rumormill-entry-no-3-256-north-america-could-get-next-gen-for/

The Focus RS might come to NA,

2010? I got my balls crossed, cuz then I will stock out the ms3 and save up for that sexy beast.

warranties? um im at 32k miles...in 1 year of driving...tell me about a warranty. mod companies dont care about warranties, by the time the warranties are up the newer version is out and their window for mods is gone.

 

[dmention7]

a couple years huh? The msp should be at about 120-140k by then, and I should be about ready for a new ride... poifect.

Anyways /threadjacking