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Mafia 4 - Night 2, Deadline 10/7 9pm

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WhiteSpy9

Guest
If we do have a cop...... what liberties do they have to bring about their findings the following day?
Can they just post "I investigated JT and he is dirty as my internet search history"?
 

mndsm

I'M OFFENDED!
If we do have a cop...... what liberties do they have to bring about their findings the following day?
Can they just post "I investigated JT and he is dirty as my internet search history"?
You could do that, but you'd have to hope and pray there's a doctor to keep you protected, because scum will NK you the first chance they get if you out yourself.
 

dmention7

Hater
My quandary is if we lynch him, and he is Town - well that flipping sucks. However if we Don't lynch him A) He could be Scum and B) Odd's are we lynch a Townie whom was maybe providing more value in hunting zee scum.
This is why I keep coming back to Kris, personally. But I also am torn.

I'm also a little surprised that AJ labelled so many "quiet" people as being likely to be town, and vocal people to be scum. Will have to revisit this later...
 

mndsm

I'M OFFENDED!
TBQH- i'm not really surprised to see myself being labelled as one of the early scum. It's a wise move on scums part, and a logical move on towns part. I've been one of the more vocal... we all know that. My early Vote for JT could easily come across as me pushing a swing vote early and trying to get everyone on boar to lynch a town before anyone else realizes what's going on. We've seen it happen like that before, where nothing happens for 3 days, someone pushes a vote and someone else is going to the gallows.... all in one day. Problem with that is- it never proved very useful to town, and I hope they realize that. Fact of the matter is, I was fairly certain my vote would never amount to anything. But what it did do, is get the game going. It's a risky move on my part. Because my options are likely A- I get lynched day one. I can almost guarantee that if I go down, whoever hammers the vote is going to be one of the two scum. Why wouldn't you want me out of the game early? I'm the one forcing the defenses, after all. Wouldn't have to look so hard at me if I wasn't nosin' around your wheelhouse. B- I get NK. Ain't much anyone can do about that, but then you'll find out that I wasn't scum, and that you lost (potentially, with a bad lynch) two town in one day. Option C- Scum lets me live. THIS is a smart idea on their part. What happens then is I get to lookin' like a scum for surviving night 1, and get lynched the next day. Problem solved. I don't believe I have any hope for making it too far, never been my character. But what I need to do, is go back and look at who defended JT, VS who agreed with me (real easy, everyone defended him) and figure out who was fighting the hardest. Because that will tell me that JT is either scum, and that person is working with them, or they're town, and JT's not. Either way, that gives me two identities.
 

Picklz

SUDO Make me a SAMCH
I don't consider the simple action of voting for someone risky or scummy - it comes down to the reasons given for the vote - either specified as part of or explained after the fact. As well as what the person voted against has to say about it. Votes - especially on day 1 I think are a good thing, personally I just haven't gotten to the point where I feel throwing one out there is worth it...yet.

I'm still not 100% convinced that Tom and JT aren't both scum, though I feel it's slightly less likely now than I thought it was before.

As far as the cop (if there is one) conveying the information he learns, without knowing there is a doctor is obviously tricky, if he investigates Kris (or someone else) and he really is Scum, he could sacrifice himself let everyone know that, we get to kill one scum and hope we can find the other one before he gets us all.
 

mndsm

I'M OFFENDED!
No matter what, the cop would only get one confirmed swing at scum if he outed himself. If there's a cop, there's a roleblocker (which I still believe JT is base on my original post) and the roleblocker at the very least, can stop the cop from any successful investigations from there on out.
 

AJ

110 HP of FURY!
This is why I keep coming back to Kris, personally. But I also am torn.

I'm also a little surprised that AJ labelled so many "quiet" people as being likely to be town, and vocal people to be scum. Will have to revisit this later...
just a whim, figured it was due more to lack of posting/playing vs strategy, if I'm wrong, then well yeah, i'm after the wrong group. I've been wrong before. I don't want to waste a vote though. What if those who have voted are trying to lead to the lynching of others sicne they are scum? possibly trying to draw attention to someone just to get the numbers in their favor?
 

dmention7

Hater
Tom, why are you so bent on justifying your actions and comments so far? I'm not convinced that self-preservation is necessarily the main concern for town. If one townie wins, we all win. So i can't help but be a little piqued by the posts you've so far dedicated towards justifying your vote.
 
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WhiteSpy9

Guest
There are many subtle ways to swing votes if you were a cop with that information. Fine line to walk to not appear "scummy"

No matter what, the cop would only get one confirmed swing at scum if he outed himself. If there's a cop, there's a roleblocker (which I still believe JT is base on my original post) and the roleblocker at the very least, can stop the cop from any successful investigations from there on out.
It is hard to say anyone who voted for Kris is leading others, since he has self labeled himself as scum.

The way town wins is to take out the scum. We have someone here who said, "I am scum".
Even if he isn't scum, I just can't see how we can ignore that.
Let's make this swift and move to the next day.

just a whim, figured it was due more to lack of posting/playing vs strategy, if I'm wrong, then well yeah, i'm after the wrong group. I've been wrong before. I don't want to waste a vote though. What if those who have voted are trying to lead to the lynching of others sicne they are scum? possibly trying to draw attention to someone just to get the numbers in their favor?
 

mndsm

I'M OFFENDED!
Tom, why are you so bent on justifying your actions and comments so far? I'm not convinced that self-preservation is necessarily the main concern for town. If one townie wins, we all win. So i can't help but be a little piqued by the posts you've so far dedicated towards justifying your vote.
Math. Majority vote is needed to win. If town makes makes it down to two members, they're fucked. Cause they'll deadlock with scum, and scum waits for an NK and it's over.
 

mndsm

I'M OFFENDED!
That, and I want to be VERY clear about my actions. The more information I can get out there, the more can be used after I'm gone.
 

niterydr

Legendary Status!
There are many subtle ways to swing votes if you were a cop with that information. Fine line to walk to not appear "scummy"



It is hard to say anyone who voted for Kris is leading others, since he has self labeled himself as scum.

The way town wins is to take out the scum. We have someone here who said, "I am scum".
Even if he isn't scum, I just can't see how we can ignore that.
Let's make this swift and move to the next day.
Now that is a scummy post right there.....
 

Picklz

SUDO Make me a SAMCH
I was thinking the very same thing Josh, especially about the last part...hasty moves are not good in this game, we need all the time we can get to figure out who is most likely to be scum.
 
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WhiteSpy9

Guest
So are you two saying you aren't going to vote for Kris?
If not, why wouldn't you or why are you with holding your vote?
 

Big Nate

Chaos Engineer
Tom, why are you so bent on justifying your actions and comments so far? I'm not convinced that self-preservation is necessarily the main concern for town. If one townie wins, we all win. So i can't help but be a little piqued by the posts you've so far dedicated towards justifying your vote.
I agree.
Thom, why are you going around and around with JT. He has done nothing more scummy then you.

I sense we have scum hiding in plain site.

There are many subtle ways to swing votes if you were a cop with that information. Fine line to walk to not appear "scummy"



It is hard to say anyone who voted for Kris is leading others, since he has self labeled himself as scum.

The way town wins is to take out the scum. We have someone here who said, "I am scum".
Even if he isn't scum, I just can't see how we can ignore that.
Let's make this swift and move to the next day.
Now that is a scummy post right there.....
I was thinking the very same thing Josh, especially about the last part...hasty moves are not good in this game, we need all the time we can get to figure out who is most likely to be scum.
I don't think that is scummy. He is just compiling the information from past posting into his post to show the fact that a person has called themselves scum. That to me is not something we can look past
 

dmention7

Hater
It's a double-edged sword.... Being indecisive is how Town loses. The best case for Scum is to have a Town that can't agree on who to lynch and either no-lynches or lets Scum have the decidiing vote. So in that sense, I can understand Andy's post. On the other hand, it does come across (at least initially) as scummy to push hard for a lynch.

Really, what this comes down to is that Kris's post set him up to be a prime target for both Scum and Town. If Kris is Town, then Scum would be stupid not to seize on that and push to lynch an easy target like that. If Kris is Scum, then the other Scum had better be consulting a Romney advisor on how to get out of this.

Like I said before, I am really torn on voting for Kris, but Andy is absolutely correct that you can't ignore a post like that. Like it or not, by all the most common rules of play, Kris' post is about the scummiest thing on record right now.
 

dmention7

Hater
Also, going back to Kris' explanation for that post:

The scum have no reason to NK me if the town is content to lynch after 1 post, nor push for a lynch if the town decides to rally. Therefore the people least pushing for a lynch are most likely scum.
I don't know if I buy that. Why would Scum not latch onto this post as a reason to lynch? Scum's goal is to act like Town, and Town would be expected to be all over this.

The only reason I can see for Scum not pushing for a lynch is that if Kris were to a) not get lynched, and b) make it past the first night without being NK'd, his post would look even more damning and scummy, resulting in him being a prime suspect. This may be a valid strategy, but it kind of relies on a lot of "if"s.
 
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