Mafia 4 - Night 2, Deadline 10/7 9pm

[AJ]

Of all the reasons to find Josh scummy, I think posting a vote tally would be the last on my list. I don't recall seeing him use that to try and push an agenda, but merely presented it as a set of facts--actual usefulness is debatable at this point, but sometimes you have to compile the data to know there's nothing there. I'm not sure I like the implication there.

UNVOTE: NATE

VOTE: AJ

it's not that he compiled the data, it's that he went so specfic after he was called out. He didn't give any reasons to support what he was doing, just found the numbers to give him a lead, and it's working. So as of right now i have a feeling I'll end up being the sacrafied town lamb, scum will get a second knocked off witht he night vote and you'll have 6 total remaining, 4 votes needed in day three, and two of those are scum... have fun with those odds.

 

[WhiteSpy9]

I'm not sure we will learn as much if AJ is indeed scum at this point.
I still think there is more to learn by lynching Nate and second Swanny.

 

[WhiteSpy9]

That should be isn't scum.... if AJ isn't scum.... what does that gain us?

 

[mndsm]

Probably?
You sound like you are on the fence. Is there someone else you are considering?

I'm considering everyone. No one is 100% ruled out on my list. I find Eddy's sudden urge to steer a vote and get a lynch consensus going well before lynch. Sure we got fucked on the last one, but he's pushing REALLY hard to get someone to the gaet.

Swanny is an interesting one. He's bandwagon voted a handful of times, called Eddy numbnuts, and generally stayed off the radar other than that.

Nate- been playing a fairly smart game as town, avoided the d1 lynch, barely. Did not get axed overnight, which I put down due to JT's death being more confusing for the rest of us, though if he's scum, that's a real good reason to let him live.

Jay- Now HERE's where it gets fun. Jay's done absolutely nothing to trigger the ol scummy-sense. Great play if you're town, BRILLIANT play if you're scum.

Andy- I'm not quite sure what to think about you. You've made some decent observations, defended yourself well, etc.

Picklz seems to like the idea that Eddy had, the whole "Agree to lynch", but he doesn't seem to have a direction. Now if I was scum, and Eddy was my partner, I'd play it like that too.

 

[mndsm]

AJ- I need to read his stuff again. Seems to be playing out of his ass. Could be just AJ, could be a smart scum move.

 

[Picklz]

Tom basically voted for no Lynch D1, and now is saying eh we should just wait till Friday night again...THAT is not very Town. I've consistently attempted to keep people moving towards a decision which is absolutely in Town's best interest. I suggested Friday afternoon for a decision/vote, Eddy is suggesting tonight for a consensus and tomorrow morning for a vote, either way we loose MAYBE 4-5 hours of posting during what is usually one of the slowest times for the site. I'd much rather do that than have another no-lynch day. But if your advocating for that - then noted.

Also I don't have a direction? I've been after Nate since D1 and Josh since his flip flop between not wanting to vote for someone then voting for them with no reasoning. You on the other hand tom Voted for a Town on D1 and aren't currently voting for anyone on D2.

 

[Z-licious]

I'm considering everyone. No one is 100% ruled out on my list. I find Eddy's sudden urge to steer a vote and get a lynch consensus going well before lynch. Sure we got fucked on the last one, but he's pushing REALLY hard to get someone to the gaet.

Do you really want a repeat of what happened before last "night"? I for one don't. Calling for a consensus 24 hours before the deadline doesn't seem reasonable to you? Especially with the amount of activity that our players have shown. You yourself went about 24 hours without a single post. Why are YOU not concerned that another no-lynch wouldn't happen?

Swanny is an interesting one. He's bandwagon voted a handful of times, called Eddy numbnuts, and generally stayed off the radar other than that.

Stayed off the radar? Are you serious? I called him out for voting for Nate after saying a short while ago that he thought Nate was town. I also called him out for lying about this being his first game. What town motivation would he have for saying things like this?

Nate- been playing a fairly smart game as town, avoided the d1 lynch, barely. Did not get axed overnight, which I put down due to JT's death being more confusing for the rest of us, though if he's scum, that's a real good reason to let him live.

Who would give Nate the knife? He was already on the chopping block for a lynch in day 1. What use would it be to knife someone who is likely to get lynched?

 

[Z-licious]

OK, after replying to Tom I had another thought about Josh and his exchange about the Nate voting. I'll walk through a possible scenario below


8:00 AM Jay proposes that we learn something from lynching Nate to see what side he is on.

From a strictly utilitarian standpoint, we might learn the most from lynching Nate, because if he's actually town then I think we would start to have a VERY good feel for who is scum. But... I am not quite convinced enough that Nate is scum.

8:11 AM Josh posts his thoughts about Nate. Why does he feel the need to defend him?

I am not so sure Nate is scum, just more a vocal townie with a stick in the mud attitude.

8:45 AM Me refering to Jay's "learning from Nate's lynching"

I was thinking this same thing, but you went and blew it by announcing it. If we lynched nate we might have been able to glean some info on 2 days worth of votes (day 1 votes against nate and the day 2 lynch if we lynched him). But now that you've announced the plan it is highly likely that if Nate were scum, his scum partner would vote for him to avoid suspicion, and if Nate were not scum, the scum wouldn't vote for him and say "Yeah, I thought he was town, now the scum should be int he group that voted for him 2 days in a row".

9:51 AM Josh checks the vote count to see if he can vote for Nate without being in danger of lynching him and avoiding suspicion for voting for his scum partner. Conviently done after I explained why it's a good idea to vote for your scum partner.

What is the official vote count now?

9:57 AM

Current Vote Count (2.2)

JT [0]
Picklz [0]
Tom [0]
Nate [2] - Andy, Picklz
AJ [0]
Jay [0]
Andy [0]
Eddy [0]
Josh [0]


With 8 players alive, 5 votes are needed to lynch!

Deadline to vote: 10/5, 9pm.

10:14 AM Feeling that Nate is in no danger of getting lynched, puts a vote in for Nate so that he's on the "list of people who voted for Nate" if Nate is lynched and discovered to be a scum, then Josh is clean.

Vote: Nate

11:58 AM After I lean on him for his erratic voting he comes up with this excuse that he was faking a bandwagon vote to see reactions. Well he certainly got one from me.

C: Faking a bandwagon vote to see reactions to it or to get people to post thoughts.

Unvote: Nate

After this Nate and Josh proceed to have a little quarrel. Surely 2 scum wouldn't be accusing eachother.



Now Josh, I've painted a pretty unfavorable picture for you. Would you care to explain the reasoning for your erratic voting behavior? First you don't think Nate is scum, then after I explained why it would be advantageous as scum to vote for your scum partner, you do a 180 and vote for Nate?

 

[mndsm]

Thanks for summarizing that for me Eddy. Now I don't have to go back and read it all.

 

[mndsm]

Tom basically voted for no Lynch D1, and now is saying eh we should just wait till Friday night again...THAT is not very Town. I've consistently attempted to keep people moving towards a decision which is absolutely in Town's best interest. I suggested Friday afternoon for a decision/vote, Eddy is suggesting tonight for a consensus and tomorrow morning for a vote, either way we loose MAYBE 4-5 hours of posting during what is usually one of the slowest times for the site. I'd much rather do that than have another no-lynch day. But if your advocating for that - then noted.

Also I don't have a direction? I've been after Nate since D1 and Josh since his flip flop between not wanting to vote for someone then voting for them with no reasoning. You on the other hand tom Voted for a Town on D1 and aren't currently voting for anyone on D2.

I did NOT NL day one. I voted for JT. As I said before, I wasn't about to bandwagon vote and get my ass put in a sling. Sucks that he was town, no one else gave me a solid indication that they were scummy enough for a vote. Swanny's certainly doing that right now. The only reason I don't want to put a swing vote in NOW, is because it seems scummy to me to try and swing a vote a day early. I'm NOT going to swing the axe a day early.

 

[niterydr]

I'm listening Josh. Can you provide some quotes of AJs that would backup your accusations?

His voting behavior is mimicing in nature. He's listed off pairs, but it is the popular concession and a summary of what someone else has stated.

I don't entirely disagree with this - AJ has had some rather babbling statements lol. But at the same time he's pointed some fingers at some possible Scum pairings that have made sense, and Assuming for a moment you are Town Josh, do AJ's posts really seem more scum than Nate's? I would ask if they seem more scum than yours but obviously you aren't voting for yourself lol. Town doesn't know who's who so we just have to vote for who seems MOST likely Scum...I'm open to hearing more specific arguments towards AJ.

Nate's posts seem scummy or strong, its hard to deceiver. I think in this game the scum are lying low, thus not voting, commenting, drawing attention to themselves. Essentially letting the paranoia take over. This is why JT was probably knifed, as he was vocal in his self defenses early. If the scum were vocal, they could blend in with vocal townie. I think the scum are not vocal and just blending with non active townie (such as myself). Perhaps there is one vocal and one not vocal, but I felt applying pressure to an unknown is justified.

 

[niterydr]

I'm listening Josh. Can you provide some quotes of AJs that would backup your accusations?

I don't entirely disagree with this - AJ has had some rather babbling statements lol. But at the same time he's pointed some fingers at some possible Scum pairings that have made sense, and Assuming for a moment you are Town Josh, do AJ's posts really seem more scum than Nate's? I would ask if they seem more scum than yours but obviously you aren't voting for yourself lol. Town doesn't know who's who so we just have to vote for who seems MOST likely Scum...I'm open to hearing more specific arguments towards AJ.

This. But I would like to see us come to a consensus even earlier, like tonight around 24 hours before the deadline. With the level of activity of the guys in this game I'm not confident that setting the expectation for noon tomorrow will be enough time.

If we agree on who to lynch tonight, then by noon tomorrow hopefully we can get 5 people voting for said person.

If it comes down to a lynche and swing vote being left, I'll vote myself to try to catch a scum.

 

[niterydr]

I'm listening Josh. Can you provide some quotes of AJs that would backup your accusations?

I don't entirely disagree with this - AJ has had some rather babbling statements lol. But at the same time he's pointed some fingers at some possible Scum pairings that have made sense, and Assuming for a moment you are Town Josh, do AJ's posts really seem more scum than Nate's? I would ask if they seem more scum than yours but obviously you aren't voting for yourself lol. Town doesn't know who's who so we just have to vote for who seems MOST likely Scum...I'm open to hearing more specific arguments towards AJ.

OK, after replying to Tom I had another thought about Josh and his exchange about the Nate voting. I'll walk through a possible scenario below


8:00 AM Jay proposes that we learn something from lynching Nate to see what side he is on.



8:11 AM Josh posts his thoughts about Nate. Why does he feel the need to defend him?



8:45 AM Me refering to Jay's "learning from Nate's lynching"



9:51 AM Josh checks the vote count to see if he can vote for Nate without being in danger of lynching him and avoiding suspicion for voting for his scum partner. Conviently done after I explained why it's a good idea to vote for your scum partner.



9:57 AM



10:14 AM Feeling that Nate is in no danger of getting lynched, puts a vote in for Nate so that he's on the "list of people who voted for Nate" if Nate is lynched and discovered to be a scum, then Josh is clean.



11:58 AM After I lean on him for his erratic voting he comes up with this excuse that he was faking a bandwagon vote to see reactions. Well he certainly got one from me.




After this Nate and Josh proceed to have a little quarrel. Surely 2 scum wouldn't be accusing eachother.



Now Josh, I've painted a pretty unfavorable picture for you. Would you care to explain the reasoning for your erratic voting behavior? First you don't think Nate is scum, then after I explained why it would be advantageous as scum to vote for your scum partner, you do a 180 and vote for Nate?

Im say Nate is strong, not 100% feeling he is scummy. He could be the strong part of the scum factor. I think we have 1 active scum and one quite/inactive scum or we have a case to where the townie's are going at each other and the scum are watching.
There is simply to much chaos to believe this is the work of two scum working together, they don't get to communicate this much.
Mistakes happen in chaos, why not stir the pot up with throwing around a vote or two to see reactions, swing votes, etc?

 

[niterydr]

Didn't mean the multi quotes on the last two posts, only replying to bottom quotes only.

 

[niterydr]

Fact of the matter is I have yet to vote for a member I am 100% positive they are scum or townie. When I feel/think they are part of a scum duo, I'll apply pressure via vote. Right/wrong/indifferent I don't know as this is my 2nd round at this game, hopefully it will finish out so I learn how to play.

 

[dmention7]

While I do agree with your comments Jay you're going to have to say more to convince me to vote for AJ.

Can I ask you this? As a person who hasn't voted much this whole game, what has caused this surge of votes from you?

I also am intriqued by Jay's quick switch-vote - this is the first time I've ever been even slightly suspect of Jay's actions. We go from not enough info to cast a vote almost through 2 Days, then a quick switch to AJ. I could maybe see it a little more if AJ had voted that way based on Josh's data but AJ had his vote out there before that so...not really sure where you're going Jay.

I was kind of afraid you two would be all over that.

Like I said before, I'm reasonably convinced there's a scum between Josh and Nate. With those two leading in votes, I had a hunch that the other scum might be compelled to take advantage of a switch in momentum to another person, and AJ's post was the first plausible place I saw to direct that momentum. But, to use Eddy's terminology, you guys blew it by calling my vote into question and making it too hot for any scum to latch onto.

If we were further from the deadline I may have let it simmer for a bit longer, but I think I'm willing to concede it was a failed effort.

For the record, I still hold AJ's premise in question that there was anything inherently devious in Josh posting those voting results. Like Picklz said... I can kind of see where he was heading, but it seems IMO more like an attempt to rile up some suspicion around Josh than a straightforward attempt to flush out scummy behavior.

 

[dmention7]

Oh, I forgot.... UNVOTE: AJ

 

[WhiteSpy9]

scummiest. post. all. game.

If it comes down to a lynche and swing vote being left, I'll vote myself to try to catch a scum.

 

[WhiteSpy9]

Unless I'm not understanding that, but you are saying you would vote for yourself, right?
Can you even do that?

 

[Picklz]

Tom my point was/is that you helped contribute to a no-lynch Day 1, which is better for Scum than Town. And now you are advocating waiting until Friday to start coming up with our plan for who is getting the lynch.

First - this opens the door for anyone to have 'insert excuse here' come up and not have to vote again on Day 2, causing another no-lynch (potentially).

Second - I think if we have our plan but keep our voting till after lunch (or if you won't be around vote earlier) it allows whoever is on the receiving end (after we figure it out) to try and change our minds / somehow prove they don't deserve the lynch before the actual votes are cast. Rather than just deciding in a 10 minute window and all casting our votes.