The help for Haiti...

[AJ]

While I feel terrible for what has happened, I'm torn due to the immediate response and dedication of funds from the U.S. We have homeless with shelters lacking funding to help. We have schools being shut down and a rise in student to teacher ratio. We still have a city with a nick name of "The Big Easy" that seems to be left to fend for itself. Cali is fucked in so many ways it's retarded. Detroit is fucked in many more ways. Drugs, Homeless, Gangs, Healthcare, and the list can go on... all going to shit in our own country due to funding. Yet we have millions and millions to continue to send other in aid?

Am I missing something?

 

[Workdawg]

I agree

 

[ZoomZoom Diva]

I do agree with you that the attention appears to be excessively diverted to the needs of people in other places than the United States when there are plenty of needs right at home. However, a balance is needed, and when a catastrophe of this type occurs where people who often have far less than even our poorest face an immediate crisis, I would say the greater need is there and believe basic rescue and humanitarian support is appropriate.

Another consideration is what are the limits of government and charitable aid? What are the roles of such aid and where does it fall upon the people to raise themselves up and to actively work to fix the problems local to them. When is it insisting better use of existing resources is in order rather than simply piling more dollars on a problem?

It's a very complicated issue that requires each item and issue to be looked at independently.

 

[Z-licious]

The greatest evil is the indifference of good men

 

[Stealthgator]

Good question, and you're not missing anything. All those things are true is some fashion. But man, Haiti they got it bad. Since fighting and winning their independence they've pretty much been raped by the global community and had to struggle with contstant power struggles from within (corruption, assasinations, revolts, etc.). I'm sure people on this forum has seen poverty or been poor themselves, but I've never heard of poverty on the level the exist in Haiti (My grandmother went down there every winter for a month for the last 15+ years and brought back videos/pictures/stories [her "group" of nurses went this year but she did not]). So while I see your point... (and I could go on and on about my experience w/ haitians), they have it worse than the poorest americans. It's the poorest nation in the Americas. Just don't seem right to kick a dog when it's down.

 

[1Kris06]

while it is ridiculous that we can give 100 million when we are trillions in debt amazes me, you also have to understand that we help out other countries to stay in 'good graces/eyes' of the world. but where is switzerland or any other country to step up when shit goes down in brazil or indonesia, why does it always have to be us?

 

[ZoomZoom Diva]

The scary part is 100 million is 1/100,000 of 10 trillion...

 

[AJ]

"They have it worse than those in the US who are poor & homeless"

I disagree. Equal, sure. Worse, no. I say that because of the U.S. citizens who will die before some here ever read my post. Why? I think the reasons are endless on this question.

It just blows my mind. People say you need to vote cause it matters, my voice matters. Well does it really? What about that 60 year old veteran who has no insurance, is living in the street, and has nothing to his name... yet gave so much by serving his country... does his voice matter?

 

[LASERBLUE135]

Its not a simple right or wrong here. Its an ethical delema. The US has sooooo much freakin' money that NOBODY should go to bed hungry at night, but some always will. Does Haiti deserve help. Sure it does.

I don't want to rant, so I will make this short as possible. A few years ago I accepted what can be best described as a form of "religion". it is based on ethics and mostly fate.

Quite simply, just because you were born in the United States, does this mean that you SHOULD have every affilation to this place? You had NOTHING to do with it. It was FATE, dumb luck. The people in Haiti just happened to have FATE fall in their laps. That said, does it really matter where the money comes from or goes? When you are helping someone else, no matter where they are from or where you are from, you are simply shifting the good fortune of yourself onto the less fortunate. IMO location does not matter for nearly 100% of us. If FATE just happened to have you born a poor Haitian, I think you'd feel quite a bit different than you do now.

 

[AJ]

But Fate didn't and thus I don't. Fate may place you where you start your life, but sure as shit doesn't control you during or place where you end up. Your decision do.

 

[LASERBLUE135]

But Fate didn't and thus I don't. Fate may place you where you start your life, but sure as shit doesn't control you during or place where you end up. Your decision do.

COMPLETELY FALSE! Where do your decisions come from? From the moment you are born your fate has dictated your thought process, the things that inspire your thought process (parents, family, friends, media, culture), and actions that further your thought process. If you think that if you were born a poor Haitian and you would grow up to be where and who you are today...words can not describe how perposterous that thought process is.

 

[AJ]

So fate was the deciding factor for you to post about fate in this specific thread? I like to think I control my fate, and fate can fuck itself in the ass if it feels otherwise.

Again, so I don't come off as a d-bag, I really do feel for Haiti and not only what they have gone through in the recent years, last 48 hours, and the obvious years to come. It's horrible and it's great we can and do send help. It's just not right to forget about those in your own backyard during the process.

Now I'm going to go tell Wyclef his life is wrong since he was born a poor Haitian, son of a pastor.

 

[Stealthgator]

But Fate didn't and thus I don't. Fate may place you where you start your life, but sure as shit doesn't control you during or place where you end up. Your decision do.

Yea but where you start your life does affect what decisons you make. For most (and I use that term in the most loosely) when we are kids we pretty much go to school and have our family members worry about food/bills etc. For people in countries like Haiti there is an excesive amount of pressure to become a producing member of the family; earning your keep. Do you go to school or do you help your father plant crops? It's a simple break down but you do get the point; a dog born in the wild is going to make different choices than a dog born into the care of a human family. Google Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs.
And poverty is worse in Haiti and countries of it's ilk because of the fact that resources (even those given for free) are so limited. The war vetran you speak off has services availble to him (knowledge of those services is a different matter), are they enough? No. But the chances of him getting help and someone being able to help him (individual, goverment, or NGO) is far more than what most haitians could hope to take advantage of. Each socio-economic class has sub levels built within them (that's why we say Lower Middle Class, Middle Class, and Upper Middle Class) the same goes with poverty. To say that all people who are poor experience the same level of poverty in this world just isn't factual.

"I disagree. Equal, sure. Worse, no. I say that because of the U.S. citizens who will die before some here ever read my post. Why? I think the reasons are endless on this question."

But how will they die, will they die of malaria, small pox, or any of the bacteria/infections you can get from drinking unclean water? (Which less than half of the country has access) The average age expectancy for a Haitian is 44 years old. Even the poorest Americans can make it to about 58 (found here).

I'm not saying that America has it's shit together when it comes to dealing with the poor (nutrition, health, mental issues) but we are a hell of a lot futher than Haiti, and that's because most of our population doesn't live below the poverty line. About 80% of hatians live below the poverty line (PDF file Here. Check under health)

My ass is getting sore from riding this High Horse, so I'm done... for now.

 

[LASERBLUE135]

I like to think I control my fate...
Again, so I don't come off as a d-bag...

You don't control fate, you had no control that you were born male, in the USA, in this time era, and an infinite amount of other factors. You are a d-bag.

 

[AJ]

The end result here is that you believe your fate is set. I believe I control my own fate. We have our own beliefs and that's that.

And if the US is so well off and can help in so many ways now, why not spend the money sooner and help with the water, food, and health situation that's killing the average Haitian off by 44?

 

[LASERBLUE135]

The end result here is that you believe your fate is set. I believe I control my own fate. We have our own beliefs and that's that.

You completely misunderstand my take on fate. It's not a belief. Fate IS what you can NOT control. (birth, death, aging, time)

Therefore, if you take into account the things you can not control: like the fact that you exist at all (you did not choose to BE); you start to ponder ethical delemas such as your original question. --->Why do we use our resources to help Haiti when we could use those resources to help people in the US?

 

[AJ]

Ok, so to you and others think the same Fate just is. And I don't believe the same.

 

[dmention7]

I have a hard time getting upset over the level of aid we give in cases of national disasters like this. The amount of aid is a drop in the bucket compared to what we are spending domestically on supporting our own unfortunate. It's not an all-or-nothing proposition... Like James said, it's a matter of balance. We don't exist in a vacuum in this country. If we have a duty to help the poor and homeless in our own country by virtue of the fact that they are our countrymen, we have at least a minimal duty to help the poor and homeless around the world, simply by virtue of the fact that we're all human.

 

[ZoomZoom Diva]

I believe that a person's path is initially determined by fate, but as they become older and become adults, a person's path is increasingly determined by their own decisions and the options increasingly determined by their own thoughts. While the acculturation one receives growing up can have considerable influence, you can choose whether to accept or reject the ideas you are raised with.

However, all this talk of fate and how important of a role it has on making and shaping your life seems irrelevant to the topic at hand. What difference does it make whether being an American is by fate or by design, or how much of our lives are factored by fate or by design in determining the ethics and morals of where help should go or be balanced?

 

[LASERBLUE135]

I believe...

seriously you guys are taking the term "fate" too literally, too storybook/psychic. There is NO BELIEVE. Its a FACT you don't choose your parents, you don't choose to be born, you don't choose where you are born. These things just happen. THERE IS NO "I BELIEVE..."

The reason this is important is because the OP just happens to be from the US, therefore believing that giving aid to another country could somehow be wrong. All I'm saying is if you take away the fact that you just got plopped here on US soil, and rethink the argument, it makes sense to spread the wealth.