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shadyspeed3
Guest
anyone know if they will still release race tuner?
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COBB tells Mazdaspeed/owners to F*&^ OFF! Basically
- Thread starter LASERBLUE135
- Start date
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shadyspeed3
Guest
nm i read into it more and answered my own question.
i was just getting ready to sell my 240sx to buy this when atr comes out. i think this is bad timing for them. why wouldnt they wait a little longer untill people are able to make their own maps and become happy ap owners before they blow themseleves out of the mazda sceen?
Sorry made it up really quick.
i was just getting ready to sell my 240sx to buy this when atr comes out. i think this is bad timing for them. why wouldnt they wait a little longer untill people are able to make their own maps and become happy ap owners before they blow themseleves out of the mazda sceen?
Sorry made it up really quick.
cosmicspd3
New Member
Cobb is being very immature. And this gary guy is a complete jackass. he is some new marketing guy. Christian and Josh were two main guys on forums and helps MSF and they were awesome. Everyone hates microsoft and windows but MS keeps making windows, and now look win7 is actually pretty cool.
This is just BS and we lost a good tuner. They also turned down partnerships with cpe. Their "tuning" for the gtr and evox suck compared to other tuners for those cars so they have nothing going for them but subies maybe. they just denied a ton of customers for their future. I was waiting for a bpv to see how theirs was...ugh...sad. I hope they get new ownership and reconsider. There was a post on nasic or whatever and it said something like, now that the car is cheap for younger buyers, those younger owners are immature, want everything now, bitching is soooooo true. But you can also find someone bitchign about anything on the internet. Cobb either has some other reasons or they are falling apart.
This is just BS and we lost a good tuner. They also turned down partnerships with cpe. Their "tuning" for the gtr and evox suck compared to other tuners for those cars so they have nothing going for them but subies maybe. they just denied a ton of customers for their future. I was waiting for a bpv to see how theirs was...ugh...sad. I hope they get new ownership and reconsider. There was a post on nasic or whatever and it said something like, now that the car is cheap for younger buyers, those younger owners are immature, want everything now, bitching is soooooo true. But you can also find someone bitchign about anything on the internet. Cobb either has some other reasons or they are falling apart.
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Rawyzf
Guest
I don't get why everyone was hateing on Cobb. I'm wondering where thier products failed?
The AP is great, and I don't blame them one bit for not making any more OTS maps. The only OTS maps they should have made in the first place were for Stock and then Stock + Cobb parts. If you want a true tune to your aftermarket parts, pay them the $150 or whatever for an etune.
The SRI and TIP are also great, are people complaining about them?
This seems weird.
The AP is great, and I don't blame them one bit for not making any more OTS maps. The only OTS maps they should have made in the first place were for Stock and then Stock + Cobb parts. If you want a true tune to your aftermarket parts, pay them the $150 or whatever for an etune.
The SRI and TIP are also great, are people complaining about them?
This seems weird.
Workdawg
NARWHAL
The first iteration of the SRI, the mount bracket was engineered poorly and apparently broke the battery box it was mounted to.
The shifter also had some issues with threading of something (shift knob I guess).
The first maps they release were also widely thought of as garbage. People spent 700$ on a mod and the initial maps barely did anything apparently.
*Note: This is all based on stuff I read on M3F, I don't have first hand knowledge of any of it.
The shifter also had some issues with threading of something (shift knob I guess).
The first maps they release were also widely thought of as garbage. People spent 700$ on a mod and the initial maps barely did anything apparently.
*Note: This is all based on stuff I read on M3F, I don't have first hand knowledge of any of it.
LASERBLUE135
Active Member
^^^ Correct, basically people were dynoing with COBB products and basically not getting anything out of them. Of course this led to backlash and promises of improvement by COBB. That was years ago now...and now this. Just a really bad situation.
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Rawyzf
Guest
It sucks to see them go, I think they've done a ton for the MS6 community.
I'm not sure on the whole MS3 community part....
I'm not sure on the whole MS3 community part....
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spek1098
Guest
I would agree that that statement by them comes off as being immature, but I also completely agree with them that they have been shit on since day one by many people in these forums. I never totally understood where that crap storm came from. Wasn't the standback also a big turd when it first came out? But it didn't get any of the flack that Cobb got about the AP. It seemed to me to be coming from all the CP-E fan boys that don't appear to understand the value of competition in an open market. I don't get where all this Cobb hate comes from, what did they ever do that actually had some effect on you personally to give you such strong feelings against them? Maybe the haters here can explain a little better.
I also think there is a bit more to this then what is in that statement. We heard several months ago that after the IP they were not going to be releasing any new products, including stopping development of those coilovers, because of the economic situation. I think this is just an extension of this. You can't tell me that car mods are selling anywhere near as well as they were a year ago. I mean for most of us, this type of spending is completely discretionary. So I have to believe that their business is hurting pretty bad right now and I bet most of their R&D spending as been cut way back.
That being said, I think the man wanted to make appoint, and a good one at that, but the end effect is only going to entrench the haters more in there beliefs, and drive a few new customers away. Not what I'd call a good move for someone who is supposed to a professional at marketing.
I also think there is a bit more to this then what is in that statement. We heard several months ago that after the IP they were not going to be releasing any new products, including stopping development of those coilovers, because of the economic situation. I think this is just an extension of this. You can't tell me that car mods are selling anywhere near as well as they were a year ago. I mean for most of us, this type of spending is completely discretionary. So I have to believe that their business is hurting pretty bad right now and I bet most of their R&D spending as been cut way back.
That being said, I think the man wanted to make appoint, and a good one at that, but the end effect is only going to entrench the haters more in there beliefs, and drive a few new customers away. Not what I'd call a good move for someone who is supposed to a professional at marketing.
JohnnyT
New Member
I don't know enough about the early days, but Cobb first released the AP for the MS6 before the MS3 was even produced, and it was hated on by just about everyone who bought one - for what reasons? I'm not totally sure, but the general consensus was it was just plain bad - even Cobb admitted fault with it. They released it again, this time with the MS3 guys, and it was much more successful. However, people were seeing the same gains with a standback as they were with the AP, as they were with an MBC and a map clamp. A mere maybe 10whp gain. The new OTS maps are great, they nailed those down, but they're not for everyone.
So, all in all, I'm actually neutral on the whole thing. Cobb did what the community wanted - the hardparts are still there - we have the AP, and we have a tuning solution (on 4/20). I am disgruntled that we now have one less tuner in this niche market though. This platform is headed for success - it's just a matter of time..and money.
So, all in all, I'm actually neutral on the whole thing. Cobb did what the community wanted - the hardparts are still there - we have the AP, and we have a tuning solution (on 4/20). I am disgruntled that we now have one less tuner in this niche market though. This platform is headed for success - it's just a matter of time..and money.
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Rawyzf
Guest
Didn't they release AP for the MS3 first?
But, yes, this does suck cause it's one less tuner with a ton of knowledge.
But, yes, this does suck cause it's one less tuner with a ton of knowledge.
JohnnyT
New Member
From what I read, the AP was released long before the MS3 was even built - it failed so they made a second go at it which is what we have today.
Enough with this though, I really am looking forward to seeing how far the ATR software is going to get people. FWIW, this is still the best tuning solution we have..might as well take advantage of it.
Enough with this though, I really am looking forward to seeing how far the ATR software is going to get people. FWIW, this is still the best tuning solution we have..might as well take advantage of it.
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Rawyzf
Guest
So far, it is the best tuning solultion for the tuner who doesn't want to do the work (like me).
I think it will get better, and I hope they still offer the etunes as I would like to have them do one.
I think it will get better, and I hope they still offer the etunes as I would like to have them do one.
JohnnyT
New Member
We'll see how ATR plays out, as I won't be able to run an OTS map.
If we take it to a protuner, they have to have the ATP software, and it'll be interesting to see how many shops buy it with the latest Cobb developments. They'll only buy it if they feel they'll profit from enough local AP users - which are few and far between right now.
If we take it to a protuner, they have to have the ATP software, and it'll be interesting to see how many shops buy it with the latest Cobb developments. They'll only buy it if they feel they'll profit from enough local AP users - which are few and far between right now.
yeah they can still tune it for you tho with the ATR race...as long as you buy it and bring in your laptop and AP
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spek1098
Guest
This isn't a Honda, can't just order standalone, have joe shmo hook up his laptop and call it a tune. Cobb was the professional tuner, and the AP and Standback are they only tools out there so far to tune our ECU, no one else can do anything with the ECU without these tools. Hopefully we get someone around here with the ability to tune these cars once the software is out, but the way this sounds, we may have to drive a ways to find someone.
cosmicspd3
New Member
Well Trey from Cobb did a press release, well spoken. This is the piece that should of been released not what Gary said.
The decision to cease NEW development for the MAZDASPEED platform was made unilaterally within the organization. Everyone from our support staff to the engineers to the calibrators agreed that given our already limited resources, it made sense.
It should not be read that all COBB products for the MAZDASPEED platform will just go away and we won't provide warranty and our normal support for our products. We are simply stating that no NEW development will occur for this platform. We are stating this in as straight forward of a manner as possible in an attempt to set proper expectations. We have been fairly criticized by the market for not properly setting and/or meeting expectations in the past so we are trying to be more transparent in our plans moving forward. We also decided to be forthcoming about some of the reasons for our decision in hopes that the community as a whole would begin to take steps to insure a rewarding relationship between enthusiasts and companies that continue to participate in it moving forward.
The predominant opinion here at COBB still is that the MAZDASPEED vehicles are a fantastic platform with enormous potential. That's what led us into this market to begin with. One area where I think there is a lot of misconception about our company is our motivation to take on some markets/vehicles. While there has to be some degree of a business case for it in order to stay solvent, the larger factor is our enthusiasm for the vehicle and the people that own them. We want to develop relationships with the community and work WITH them to maximize the experience in owning that vehicle. Knowing you're working WITH a group of fellow enthusiasts to make the vehicle better, learn more, and having your work appreciated is extremely motivating and exciting.
As stated by Gary, the MAZDASPEED community in large part (though clearly not the WHOLE part) has been rather negative towards us for quite some time. In part, we've earned some of this negativity and we don't shy away from that. On the other hand, there are often cases were expectations are so high that we are destined to fail regardless of skill or effort. We have always sought to improve on our weaknesses and learn from our mistakes, but for quite a few people our actions will never be enough. We're quite use to facing criticism in honestly EVERY market we participate in. We've always thrived on it, as it makes our company and products better. However there is a significant difference between constructive criticism from those that want to see things improve and
destructive criticism from those that only want us to fail. The former certainly exists, but it has been the growing predominance of the later that has weighed heavily in this decision.
For those that are upset that you are being "punished" by the decision, we have a lot in common. I'm also upset that the motivation to continue development of the MAZDASPEED products has been sucked out of the company, and myself. We're both being punished by the same negative elements that flourishes in this community. Some may argue that it makes little sense for a business to take this action when there's money to be made. If money were our primary motivator, that would certainly be a valid argument. In our case, we prefer to go where we can interact positively with fellow enthusiasts and feel as though the work we are doing is appreciated. Silly notion for some, I know, but I get more enjoyment from that than from looking at some numbers on my bank statement.
Finally, I do feel things are concluding on a positive note considering that we do have the AccessTUNER Pro out now that will address the needs of MAZDASPEED AP owners for years to come. The Race version is coming shortly that will also provide the solution so many of you have been asking for. My sincere hope is that we helped the MAZDASPEED enthusiast community by providing more tools, knowledge and resources than what was available when we started. That you, and the others that purchase these vehicles in the future, will be able to achieve their goals and that our effort will have been a positive contribution.
And for those that have been so willing to work with us, it has been sincerely appreciated. We apologize that we've been unable to meet your expectations, and hope that the fruits of your effort will be enjoyed by you and others by the tuning tools we have and are making available to the community.
Best of luck to all and happy tuning,
Trey Cobb
Ahhh much better PR there. Well I think its more than "bitchy" customers, I think they had too many cars they were tuning and the mazdaspeed just didnt get the backing from the community they wanted so it was a easy choice to ax. Just look at their "car" tuning list and how many people they layed off. they didnt have time to deal with whinny mazda owners.
The decision to cease NEW development for the MAZDASPEED platform was made unilaterally within the organization. Everyone from our support staff to the engineers to the calibrators agreed that given our already limited resources, it made sense.
It should not be read that all COBB products for the MAZDASPEED platform will just go away and we won't provide warranty and our normal support for our products. We are simply stating that no NEW development will occur for this platform. We are stating this in as straight forward of a manner as possible in an attempt to set proper expectations. We have been fairly criticized by the market for not properly setting and/or meeting expectations in the past so we are trying to be more transparent in our plans moving forward. We also decided to be forthcoming about some of the reasons for our decision in hopes that the community as a whole would begin to take steps to insure a rewarding relationship between enthusiasts and companies that continue to participate in it moving forward.
The predominant opinion here at COBB still is that the MAZDASPEED vehicles are a fantastic platform with enormous potential. That's what led us into this market to begin with. One area where I think there is a lot of misconception about our company is our motivation to take on some markets/vehicles. While there has to be some degree of a business case for it in order to stay solvent, the larger factor is our enthusiasm for the vehicle and the people that own them. We want to develop relationships with the community and work WITH them to maximize the experience in owning that vehicle. Knowing you're working WITH a group of fellow enthusiasts to make the vehicle better, learn more, and having your work appreciated is extremely motivating and exciting.
As stated by Gary, the MAZDASPEED community in large part (though clearly not the WHOLE part) has been rather negative towards us for quite some time. In part, we've earned some of this negativity and we don't shy away from that. On the other hand, there are often cases were expectations are so high that we are destined to fail regardless of skill or effort. We have always sought to improve on our weaknesses and learn from our mistakes, but for quite a few people our actions will never be enough. We're quite use to facing criticism in honestly EVERY market we participate in. We've always thrived on it, as it makes our company and products better. However there is a significant difference between constructive criticism from those that want to see things improve and
destructive criticism from those that only want us to fail. The former certainly exists, but it has been the growing predominance of the later that has weighed heavily in this decision.
For those that are upset that you are being "punished" by the decision, we have a lot in common. I'm also upset that the motivation to continue development of the MAZDASPEED products has been sucked out of the company, and myself. We're both being punished by the same negative elements that flourishes in this community. Some may argue that it makes little sense for a business to take this action when there's money to be made. If money were our primary motivator, that would certainly be a valid argument. In our case, we prefer to go where we can interact positively with fellow enthusiasts and feel as though the work we are doing is appreciated. Silly notion for some, I know, but I get more enjoyment from that than from looking at some numbers on my bank statement.
Finally, I do feel things are concluding on a positive note considering that we do have the AccessTUNER Pro out now that will address the needs of MAZDASPEED AP owners for years to come. The Race version is coming shortly that will also provide the solution so many of you have been asking for. My sincere hope is that we helped the MAZDASPEED enthusiast community by providing more tools, knowledge and resources than what was available when we started. That you, and the others that purchase these vehicles in the future, will be able to achieve their goals and that our effort will have been a positive contribution.
And for those that have been so willing to work with us, it has been sincerely appreciated. We apologize that we've been unable to meet your expectations, and hope that the fruits of your effort will be enjoyed by you and others by the tuning tools we have and are making available to the community.
Best of luck to all and happy tuning,
Trey Cobb
Ahhh much better PR there. Well I think its more than "bitchy" customers, I think they had too many cars they were tuning and the mazdaspeed just didnt get the backing from the community they wanted so it was a easy choice to ax. Just look at their "car" tuning list and how many people they layed off. they didnt have time to deal with whinny mazda owners.
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cosmicspd3
New Member
There is also the paisini tune, but that one requires a ecu to be sent off to a rep.
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Rawyzf
Guest
You can run an OTS map, it won't be perfect, but it will be better than stock
