Audio - upgrade all or piecemeal - newb

[SteveO]

So anyone interested in helping a newb with some questions? I’m fairly versed in home audio (updated my entire home system last summer) but not for the vehicle > in the sense that I haven’t wired amps, aftermarket HU’s, speakers etc..don’t really have a clue.

I have been reading, but as usual with a mod, the minutia of questions keep growing deeper and deeper….Sound is very subjective so I won’t go there, but will state that I am pretty critical on fidelity, but I’m not going to spend $5k either. Just a modest upgrade > I’m not sure what that is yet.

I think one of the biggest mysteries for me right now is regarding the AMP.
- If I just get a sub to start with should I keep the stock door speakers
- To keep or not to keep the stock HU
- Does an amp just drive sub or all of the speakers.
- If I update the doors now or down the road they'd be component speaker which have crossovers-where do those mount
- How much load do they need, how efficient bla, bla I don’t know where to start. Or is it just as simple to just go get a four channel Kicker AMP at BB and go with it….

As far as subs go I’m thinking (small form factor):
Infinity basslink (self contained unit) ala Dr Webster
Or
Audiointergrations 10”
http://www.audiointegrations.net/MazdaHatch2010.html
will have to purchase speaker

Not looking for an answer for everything and the above are just some of my thoughts rambling around - maybe someone can chime in and point me in the right direction or some do's dont's from experience? I'm think about $1k to get going - is that doable? (would like to install myself.....with some possible assistance )

I did stop in at BB the other day just to get some basics, but I must have got the person on an off day or something 'cause I didn't really get a lot of my questions clarified.

 

[DrWebster]

- If I just get a sub to start with should I keep the stock door speakers

Do you have the factory Bose system or not? If not, then you may not necessarily need an amp for the door speakers; the factory HU offers decent power if you choose speakers with a high sensitivity rating. If you have the Bose system, then you already have a small sub in the spare tire well; all of the Bose speakers are driven off of a single amp so you'd be best replacing everything in one shot.

- To keep or not to keep the stock HU

Having gone down the road of trying an aftermarket HU in my car, while you will gain some sound quality, I hated how it ended up looking and how poorly the aftermarket steering wheel control interface worked.

- Does an amp just drive sub or all of the speakers.

Any or all -- your choice. You can get 1-channel (monoblock) amps for single subs, 2-channel amps, 4-channel amps and there are a few 5-channel amps (4 channels for door speakers plus an extra for a sub) out there.

- If I update the doors now or down the road they'd be component speaker which have crossovers-where do those mount

Depends on how big the crossovers are. I haven't taken the interior door panel off of a 2nd gen, so I don't know how much room you have to work with in there, but in my case I was able to just barely fit my Infinity Reference components' crossover inside the doors. I've seen installs where the crossovers are too big, though, and folks have had to put them in the kick panels or in the trunk with the amp (and in both cases, they have to pull new speaker wires into the door -- ugh).

- How much load do they need, how efficient bla, bla I don’t know where to start. Or is it just as simple to just go get a four channel Kicker AMP at BB and go with it….

Again, depends on if you plan to keep the factory HU, if you have the Bose system, etc.

Infinity basslink (self contained unit) ala Dr Webster

I've been very happy with my BassLink; the unit is almost 10 years old and it still pounds away. You're welcome to take a listen at install day this weekend if you can make it.

I did stop in at BB the other day just to get some basics, but I must have got the person on an off day or something 'cause I didn't really get a lot of my questions clarified.

Best Buy is dumb like that. And no matter what, DO NOT LET THEM TOUCH YOUR CAR.

 

[micahlarson]

Alot of what you are asking really depends on: budget, how much work you want to do, what kind of music you want to listen to, and lastly if you have any brand loyalty.

I'm polished a crap setup from jbl into gold for around 1k-1.5k and that was an installed full system..

I've also set up systems that cost 20k.. it all depends on what you want in the end.

if you want you can message me your number and I'll call you when I have some free time and try to better help you out.

 

[SteveO]

Do you have the factory Bose system or not? If not, then you may not necessarily need an amp for the door speakers; the factory HU offers decent power if you choose speakers with a high sensitivity rating. If you have the Bose system, then you already have a small sub in the spare tire well; all of the Bose speakers are driven off of a single amp so you'd be best replacing everything in one shot.

Nope, nadda, no Bose (on purpose). Sorry, should have mentioned that.

Having gone down the road of trying an aftermarket HU in my car, while you will gain some sound quality, I hated how it ended up looking and how poorly the aftermarket steering wheel control interface worked.

Yeah, that's what I'm somewhat worried about and kinda torn on this - I would like to keep the stock look, controls and menu screen. I MOSTLY use my MP3 player via the hidden AUX port in the arm rest thingy - which I like as its out of the way and or you don't have to plug it into the front AUX port of a new HU = messy. I believe installing any new HU will disable the AUX port in the arm rest which I'm not thrilled about - at least from my findings. BUT, when I start to look at some of the double DIN touch screens and all the bells and whistles etc..it starts to look attractive, cool but really I probably wouldn't use most of it.

Controlling the music from a bigger screen would be nice and having NAV.....but really don't see me getting much use out of it. Also some EQ would be nice as I really would like to dial in the sound. Watching DVD's, wtf, don't care?

Sooo, I'm not to sure about getting a new HU - however, if there are some real functional / tangible reasons for upgrading I wouldn't have a problem doing so [/QUOTE]

Any or all -- your choice. You can get 1-channel (monoblock) amps for single subs, 2-channel amps, 4-channel amps and there are a few 5-channel amps (4 channels for door speakers plus an extra for a sub) out there.

So if I understand correctly
- 1-channel amp for adding a sub and use the stock HU to drive the doors
- To upgrade doors and add a sub I would need:
1. two amps = 1 channel for sub + 4 channel for doors
2. or a 5 channel
3. or possibly use the stock HU for doors and add a mono amp.
- Basslink = would just need to hook up to the stock HU's "out".

Depends on how big the crossovers are. I haven't taken the interior door panel off of a 2nd gen, so I don't know how much room you have to work with in there, but in my case I was able to just barely fit my Infinity Reference components' crossover inside the doors. I've seen installs where the crossovers are too big, though, and folks have had to put them in the kick panels or in the trunk with the amp (and in both cases, they have to pull new speaker wires into the door -- ugh).

Got it.

Again, depends on if you plan to keep the factory HU, if you have the Bose system, etc.

If I keep the stock HU and update the doors, I would be open for some direction on that scenario (choosing speakers), unless of course it's simply not a good idea. Can I keep the stock HU and add amp(s) to drive new speakers?

I've been very happy with my BassLink; the unit is almost 10 years old and it still pounds away. You're welcome to take a listen at install day this weekend if you can make it.

Cool. may have to take you up on that

Best Buy is dumb like that. And no matter what, DO NOT LET THEM TOUCH YOUR CAR.

I figured as much - was going after some basic info. I assume you referring to don't let them touch the car = hack job?

 

[SteveO]

Alot of what you are asking really depends on: budget, how much work you want to do, what kind of music you want to listen to, and lastly if you have any brand loyalty.

I'm polished a crap setup from jbl into gold for around 1k-1.5k and that was an installed full system..

I've also set up systems that cost 20k.. it all depends on what you want in the end.

if you want you can message me your number and I'll call you when I have some free time and try to better help you out.

Will do thanks.

 

[DrWebster]

I believe installing any new HU will disable the AUX port in the arm rest which I'm not thrilled about - at least from my findings.

Correct.

So if I understand correctly
- 1-channel amp for adding a sub and use the stock HU to drive the doors
- To upgrade doors and add a sub I would need:
1. two amps = 1 channel for sub + 4 channel for doors
2. or a 5 channel
3. or possibly use the stock HU for doors and add a mono amp.
- Basslink = would just need to hook up to the stock HU's "out".

Yep. Keep in mind that the factory HU doesn't have a dedicated line-out, so you'll need to buy what's called a Line Out Converter (or LOC). It taps into the speaker outs on the HU and gives you a set of RCA line-level outputs for driving amps. They're cheap though, like $20-30.

If I keep the stock HU and update the doors, I would be open for some direction on that scenario (choosing speakers), unless of course it's simply not a good idea. Can I keep the stock HU and add amp(s) to drive new speakers?

Yep, you absolutely can have new speakers driven by the factory HU and just add a sub -- this is what I did. You can also use a separate amp for the door speakers; you'd need an LOC for this.

I figured as much - was going after some basic info. I assume you referring to don't let them touch the car = hack job?

Yeah, they'll mess your car up.

 

[dmention7]

I thought the aux-in in the armrest was just a 1/8" stereo jack? Most mid-range head units should have an input you can use with that. Or is it something different in the gen-poo?

 

[DrWebster]

It's the end that connects to the factory HU that's nonstandard. If you wanted to cut up the wiring harness, you could possibly solder a normal minijack on to plug into an aftermarket HU. I haven't heard of anyone attempting this though.

 

[dmention7]

I guess that would be the least of my concerns in installing an aftermarket HU. Seems like that would be easy enough to just get a panel-mount jack and then wire that to the HU.

 

[SteveO]

I thought the aux-in in the armrest was just a 1/8" stereo jack? Most mid-range head units should have an input you can use with that. Or is it something different in the gen-poo?

Yes its a stereo jack - maybe AUX is the wrong terminology, but it says AUX on the screen when in use etc.. There is a 12v socket in there as well.

 

[SteveO]

Just thinking a bit more about this on the drive this morning…..specifically what’s my goal?

I THINK, if I can:
- Add some more detail to the imaging
- Tighten up the bass and able to feel it
- Have the ability to turn it up to a comfortable “loudness” w/o distortion => not looking for high SPL or shaking the windows, not even close. Currently, if I turn it up to where I'm driving the doors pretty good (and don’t need it much louder) the stocks are just starting to distort.
- Control the eq’ing via my MP3 player
- Hopefully can be done on a weekend

By performing this:
- Adding a sub (probably audio integrations w/ a 10” kicker comp R). Basslink is an option but functionally, the audio integrations appear to be less intrusive
- Adding an amp – Probably just a single channel for sub (can always upgrade/add correct?). Would like to mount in on top of the spare (I have seen two applications on the forums that made this work nicely) => foot print would be important if I go that route
- Replacing the doors (comps in front/2way in rear). Aiming for sensitivity toward the mid 90’s. I assume I can use the existing wiring?
- Adding LOC
- Keeping stock HU

What I’m not looking for:
- Thumping down the street where everyone can hear me
- Least impact on my trunk space
- Going over the initial budget
- Wining a stereo competition
- Having to redo everything because it doesn’t sound any better

I would be pretty happy camper.

BTW, thanks Micah for the phone call.

Knowing this is subjective, does this seem achievable? I’m up for any comments, really. Obviously the only things that are left out are an additional amp (for doors) and new HU. Each of these are still an option, but I’m not sold on a new HU since I can’t see the advantage => needing NAV or a new HU will drive your doors significantly better etc.?

FWIW, p.s. off-topic bla, bla, bla – I spent a TON of time researching acoustics/construction for my home “studio” build that I did myself (soundproofing, room modes, bass trapping, doors, staggered wall construction, iso mounts, resilient channels etc). My point, none really other than offering up some insight if anyone ever goes down that path

 

[SLyness18]

what ive found with my audio experience--- spend the majority or your money on electronics( head unit and amps), this is where u WILL notice the biggest differences, u can have the best speakers in the world and they will sound like shit without the power and clarity provided by a decent hu and amp. i have had a range of systems from the wigger that u can here three blocks away to just nice livable listening. In response to the AUX being on the face of the hu, alpines use an aux out the back on a long pig tail that u can put anywhere, (i agree plugin right into the face is obtrusive). PS i havent done ton of shopping but Crutchfield.com is a terrific place to do research and purchase equipment. if u do buy anything from them just enter the car and they will send a manual that is car specific to aid the install, and most of the gear needed to install. most the time costs an extra $30+ at BB. Never waste ur time at BB!

 

[mndsm]

From what it sounds like, you're on the right track. LOC, decent set of components (Infinity or Boston in my world) leave the stock HU because it actually has pretty good signal for a stock unit (I've heard a few stock HU based systems with just some speakers and maybe an amp, and they actually sound quite good) throw like an Alpine v12 5 channel at it, 10" subwoofer (My vote for Boston again- the old comp 10 they had with the butyl surround is seriously the cleanest sub i've ever heard, and that's even against my JL's) and you're golden.

 

[SteveO]

what ive found with my audio experience--- spend the majority or your money on electronics( head unit and amps), this is where u WILL notice the biggest differences, u can have the best speakers in the world and they will sound like shit without the power and clarity provided by a decent hu and amp. i have had a range of systems from the wigger that u can here three blocks away to just nice livable listening. In response to the AUX being on the face of the hu, alpines use an aux out the back on a long pig tail that u can put anywhere, (i agree plugin right into the face is obtrusive). PS i havent done ton of shopping but Crutchfield.com is a terrific place to do research and purchase equipment. if u do buy anything from them just enter the car and they will send a manual that is car specific to aid the install, and most of the gear needed to install. most the time costs an extra $30+ at BB. Never waste ur time at BB!

Thanks, all good info. Crutchfield does have some good info no doubt. However, its valuable to get peoples advice/experience as many times info on the web will leave out little details etc..

 

[SteveO]

From what it sounds like, you're on the right track. LOC, decent set of components (Infinity or Boston in my world) leave the stock HU because it actually has pretty good signal for a stock unit (I've heard a few stock HU based systems with just some speakers and maybe an amp, and they actually sound quite good) throw like an Alpine v12 5 channel at it, 10" subwoofer (My vote for Boston again- the old comp 10 they had with the butyl surround is seriously the cleanest sub i've ever heard, and that's even against my JL's) and you're golden.

Yeah, I think I'm on the right track for a first go 'round. I'll start to piece stuff together and update the thread FWIW. Thanks for the comments.

 

[SteveO]

Alrighty then - I've dragged my feet on this one, but now I have to get something in before f'ing snow flies - four paychecks til snow

Anyhoo, I've got a shopping list and wanted to get some feedback before I make the plunge. So here it goes

I'm keeping the stock HU with stock spkr wiring. Keeping the stock rears.

Sub:
JL Audio 8W3V3-4 (in an Adiointergration 8" enclosure)

Amp:
JL Audio XD700/5 channel (mounted on top of spare)

Front Comps:
Focal 165A1 or JL Audio C2-650

Line converter:
Audiocontrol LC6i (mounting/placement suggestions? e.g. glove box)

Amp kit:
pretty lost on this any suggestions?

Addtl items:
17ft RCA's from the LC6i to Amp (depending where these are mounted in relation to each other)

How does this list look / any issues or additional items I'm missing? Thinking a 5 chnl amp so I can control the rears (via gain) or would it make sense to go 4 chnl and just remove the rears from the chain altogether?

 

[mndsm]

No upgraded rear speakers? You're gonna have a killer setup there w/ all the other stuff chosen, I'd go ahead and dump rear speakers on that list and then run a 5 channel.

 

[concealer404]

Rear fill is overrated. I'd rather put the money you'd spend on rear speakers towards front stage, then remove the rears entirely.

 

[SteveO]

No upgraded rear speakers? You're gonna have a killer setup there w/ all the other stuff chosen, I'd go ahead and dump rear speakers on that list and then run a 5 channel.

No, I guess my thinking is the rears add some "ambiance", but the meat is coming from a good set of front comps. So I'm not too concerned with the rears. Using a 5chnl vs a 4chnl (removing out the rears) amp, gives me the ability to dial in the rears via the gain on its channel => turn them down. Also it doesn't appear to be a big $ difference and gives me expandability/options.....I think.

 

[SteveO]

Rear fill is overrated. I'd rather put the money you'd spend on rear speakers towards front stage, then remove the rears entirely.

Yeah that's what I was thinking and just getting a 4chnl and removing them from the signal chain. But the $ between 4+5chnl isn't much from what I can tell.

I'm also considering this Alpine
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_12415_Alpine-PDX-5.html

I like the idea of the quick disconnects (being over the spare), not a biggie though.

Also, is the "CEA-2006 Compliant" a big deal - the JL isn't? Also, also..does a setup like this affect the battery + alternator negatively?